Exclusive for WW II Ace Stories - Captain (res.) Kyosti Karhila interviewed in Westend, Espoo, Finland the 29th November 1998 by Ossi Juntunen. Part 2.

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7. After the war

- You were demobilised as the war ended?

- It was the 14th November 1944 as we flew our fighters from Malmi to Hyvinkaa, then we left for home.

- You did not have a profession, did you have a job to go to?

- None whatsovere. I had not finished my school, and I did not feel like continuing studies. I found a job as a foreman in a timber company, but soon I found that it was not for me. But in 1945 I found that the government was going to train flight controllers and applicants for the course were sought. I was admitted, I had flying experience and some language skills: German and Swedish, which was quite shaky, however. My first location after the course was in Pori, and after the flight control was handed over to military, I was posted to Turku. There I was for more than one year in the flight control. By coincidence, my old commander Olli Puhakka had become a pilot for Finnair (called Aero in the 1940's). When he flew to Turku in the evening, he would continue for Pori to stay there overnight and to return next morning. I took rides with him and he let me steer the Junkers 52 /3m. I found that flying an airliner was a simple thing. When Finnair sought new pilots to fly the newly acquired DC-3's I applied.

8. Airline pilot

- The applicants had to prove their skill by flying a Ju-52/3m and a DC-2 on a regular route with the instructor. I was among the accepted men and reported the 1st of March 1947 at the Finnair main office. The very first thing they wanted to know was about my language skill, and specially Swedish? - College Swedish, I said, German and some English. I was hired, and I stayed in the company for 26 years 2 months 11 days.

- The new men started their career as co-pilots of DC-3's, but I was surprised as I became a Captain one year later. The old instructors were posted to new duties, and I was one of the new instructors. I had never instructed, but soon learned and trained young pilots

- In early 50's Finnair purchased Convair Metropolitans, and I was trained in the U.S. to fly them.

- Did you have any problems with the language?

- No more then. I picked up the "aviation English" fairly soon. We did the examination in American style and flew the planes home - Puhakka, Siirila and me.

- The next new type was the Caravelle at the end of the 50's. I was posted to fly as "observer" in Caravelles of the SAS, then train the Finnair pilots. When the Caravelle 3 was replaced with Caravelle 10, I was trained in France. Finally I was trained for DC-8 as it was purchased in the 60's.

- In the year 1973 I had flown the years needed to retire from Finnair. I calculated that if I resign and start flying for a charter company, I have a chance to fly longer. So I left for Spearair, but the company went bankrupt some years later. After that I flew as charter pilot several business jets and kept flying up to the age of 65 years. I had been granted four extra years of flying by the governmental Psycho-Physiological Institute, I was very fit. But then the doctor said: "Look, the other pilots are pestering me and asking why you are getting extra flying years and they are not. Could you not retire?"

- That is what happened in 1986. That was the career of a pilot.

9. General matters

- Do you have a hobby?

- I used to coach a model aircraft club for the young for 20 years, I also play golf and tennis. The Harmon Trophy I received for my flying career.

- What about your family?

- I married after the war only, as I was working as flight controller in Turku . I have five children, my son is a pilot in Air Botnia.

- What do you think, why did the enemy not attack the Kymi air base in 1943-1944?

- I don't know. The Kymi air base was just a runway in the forest, it was difficult to see. Maybe the enemy believed we were operating from Utti? Our bases were attacked a few times.

- For example Utti in early July 1941. A flight of six Fokker D.XXI came to the base and the flight commander was told to locate his planes in the eastern side of the airfield. But there was a deep ditch between the field and the forest, so that they could not disperse their aircraft among the trees. So the planes were left on the edge of the field in a perfectly straight row, even the propellers were turned one blade pointing up. We woke up at three o'clock next morning at a strange engine sound. Two MiG-1's were about and they strafed the Fokkers. Two burned down and the rest were full of holes. The result was that our squadron leader was replaced by Major Ehrnrooth.

- Some days later the Soviet Air Force visited Utti with a bigger force, one nine-plane I-153 escadrille strafed and another escadrille covered them. Three CU's took off, but the enemy attacked them even before they were airborne. Two were damaged and managed to return, but the third, piloted by Sgt. Kirjonen, engaged the enemy. Kirjonen got into heads-on shooting with a Tchaika. His fighter was hit, the engine cowling was ripped off, but he kept on fighting. The Tchaika was hit and crashed into a lake, but Kirjonen's fighter was in flames, too. He bailed out at 200m and the moment the dome of the chute opened, his feet hit the ground. The enemy fighter was recovered from the lake. The cloth covering of the I-153 had been ripped off, it was just a ball of scrap with a dead pilot inside. There is a photo, published in newspapers, of Kirjonen looking at the wreck. Kirjonen was much praised for his courage.

- Nurmoila was regularly bombed in the night by single R-5's. The idea was to rob us of sleep. Our AA tried to shoot toward the engine sound, but they never hit anything.

- Lappeenranta and Immola bases were attacked with great force on the evening of the2nd of July 1944. Our radio intelligence had found out about the objective and the time, then they found that the raid had been delayed by 24 hours. My flight took off to intercept them en route to the East of Viipuri, because that was their usual route. But this time the enemy came West of Viipuri and without resistance to Lappeenranta. At first 35 Pe-2's dive-bombed the base, then 40 Il-2's strafed. Two Me-109's were destroyed and our two war-booty Pe-2's burned down. Luftwaffe Task Force Kuhlmey was based in Immola, and they had been warned about the coming raid, but the Germans refused to believe Finnish intelligence information. They suffered heavy losses: the enemy bounced Focke-Wulfs at takeoff. Also the 70 German planes (Ju-87 Stukas and F-W 190 Jabos ) were placed at the edges of the airfield, the Russians had no problems in hitting them.

- What about the food ?

- I think we were eating wholesome food in general. It was not too sweet, and there was not too much of it in general...We survived with our rations, but we were never short of food,either. Mostly we ate dried thin rye bread with margarine, it was enough for us. The flying personnell received a weekly special ration of butter, sugar, chocolate bar, coffee...

- A propos food, in spring 1942 there was an unpleasant incident in Nurmoila. The pilots of our flight had pooled their hoarded wheat flour (a rare item those days) and decided to make pancakes. We made the dough in a pail, but we found that more eggs and milk were needed. I and Lt. Ruotsila volunteered to go and barter some with bread from the local people in the village. We made the others promise that they would not begin before we got back, else nothing would be left for us.

- As we were coming back with our merchandise, we heard the siren of an ambulance. We joked that the lads must have started the feast without us and they have eaten themselves sick. When we came back to our lodgings, we learned what had happened. The lads had fried one test pancake, cut it up and tasted it. The taste had been odd. Soon some tasters began to feel sick and their hands and legs were paralysed for a while. The paralysed ones were transported to the nearest hospital. One pilot was so ill that an ambulance plane was sent for from Helsinki, but he died during the transport.

- There was a strict police investigation. The dough pail was analysed and found to contain rat poison. It was not a case of sabotage, but an accident. A bag of rat poison had been mixed with the wheat flour. Some of the poisoned men recovered, some remained invalids. The odd thing is that some Lottas (volunteer women assisting logistics, communications etc.) who also had tasted the pancake suffered no damage. The poison had been in small lumps, probably. All kinds of things can happen...

- What about the use of alcohol ? I believe the RAF and the Luftwaffe had clubs and messes with liberal availability of drinks for the pilots, how about the Finnish Air Force ?

- Each man purchased his drinks himself, when on leave or someone was sent to the nearest government liquor store. I did not drink, I had sworn that in case I should be decorated with the Mannerheim Cross, then I shall, if not, I shall abstain until the end of the war. No Mannerheim cross for me, so... Some pilots did drink at times, though.

- That did not affect the fighting, did it?

- It did not. The ones with a hangover stayed in their bunks, the sober ones flew. There were those who were teetotallers. Liquor was expensive and hard to get, a reservist's daily allowance (in 1943: for all reservists in service, regardless their rank or task, 12 FIM a day, less than the average industrial hourly wages ) was not enough for it. I remember once as the flight commander took off the next morning with quite a hangover, and against all expectations, shot something down. It was customary that after a victory you made a dive at the base. But the flight commander had not fastened his belts, and as he pushed the stick he was flung against the canopy top! Fortunately it did not break. I was witnessing the incident, and as the fighter vanished behind the forest line I thought he was gone for good. But the fighter pulled up and landed, a very pale man climbed out of the cockpit, saying: "Nevermore!"

- Was physical exercise organised or up to everyone himself?

- It was up to everyone himself. There was, however, organised games between the squadrons: track and field sport, swimming, cross-country skiing, shooting etc. Every pilot participated in some sport.

- For me, flying and fighting was a sport in itself. I remember cases when some pilots "experienced engine problem" and they aborted their missions. But especially in Squadron 32 every pilot hung to his flying turn, they did not want to give it to anybody. I think that proves good fighting spirit and patriotism. I stuck to my own turns in flying and if anybody left for leave, I was ready to fly instead. When I was flying instead of somebody else, I always found action and shot down something. This happened at least ten times!

- Did you participate in the Suursaari operation? ( A Finnish Army division took the island of Suursaari which was occupied by Red Army in spring 1942).

- I was not. The air battles and their results have been controversial afterwards. The Finnish aviation historians have searched Soviet archives and found that according to them the Soviet Air Force lost no planes, but shot down 6 Finnish fighters. ( Finnish version: 12 CU-fighters intercepted 29 pcs I-153 and I-16, which were flying in three waves. In the ensuing dogfight 10 I-153 and 6 I-16 were shot down by the CU pilots without any losses of their own.)

- But General Pajari, the commander of the division, organised a parade on the ice after the land battle and the air battles were fought during the parade in view of the men participating in it. The wrecks of the Soviet fighters were found on the ice. Now it also claimed that if the Soviet Air Force had lost this many fighters, they could not have continued their activities in that sector. I think it is likely that the fighters shot down belonged to more than one unit.

- Mr. Dariusz Tyminski wanted to know when the enemy became superior to our air force?

- The enemy actually never was superior to us but in their massive numbers. Let us consider the Soviet offensive starting on the 9th June 1944. We had about 30 airworthy Messerschmitts and about 60 airworthy bombers, whereas Russians concentrated to the Isthmus 1585 aircraft plus 200 Navy Air Force aircraft. With this mass of aircraft the enemy had his way, nothing else.

- What was your opinion about the training level of the enemy pilots?

- In 1941-1942 I think it was poor. Then their quality improved, but the younger enemy pilots were easier to shoot down than the older ones. The enemy skill never attained the highest level, and I do not think they were superior to us.

- Was the Me109G equal to the enemy aircraft in summer 1944?

- The Me could be a little better in climb, which could be some kind of last resort, you knew that if you start climbing the enemy is left behind in the end. But I used that trick seldom only.

- Which was the more dangerous opponent, La-5 or Yak-9?

- There were more of the La's, that is why I thought it was the more dangerous one.

- Do you know of cases when a parachuted pilot would have been strafed?

- Russians did do that.

- Were those single cases or was that systematic?

- Well, I know of several cases. Especially those Finnish airmen who had been in a reconnaisance mission and had the bad fortune of having to bail out, they were in the risk of being shot in their parachute harness. I find that quite disgusting.

- As to me, I can say that the La-5 pilot who nearly got me parachuted in the middle of the Gulf of Finland. He was rescued by a speedboat from Lavansaari, and I did not have any idea of going to strafe the boat. I must admit that my hands and feet were shaking at that moment.

- What was the absolutely worst you experienced?

- It was on the 20th August 1943 as four of us took off at Kymi. Puhakka led us, there had been an alert: bombers approaching Kotka. Puhakka had a wingman and he ordered me and Flt.Mstr. Tuominen as top cover, but Tuominen did not manage to start his engine in time. The three of us took off, and as we turned our radio on, we heard that the enemy had retreated. Puhakka flew straight to the area between Seiskari and Lavansaari islands. Enemy aircraft could always be found there, and we did. Puhakka announced that he is going to engage, and I stayed behind to see to it that they should not be surprised. Puhakka and his wingman dived, soon I heard over the radio that they were in a dogfight. I checked the horizon, the weather was clear and sunny, nothing was seen. I looked down for targets to attack. I was just about to dive as there was a tap on my shoulder: it is true. As I looked back, there was a big white spinner at the distance of 20 or 30 meters behind my tail.

- That is the worst situation you can find yourself in, but I was prepared for it. Should I ever be surprised, I should engage evasive action at the same moment. I kicked my right foot down and shoved the stick ahead and to the right, resulting in outside barrel manouver. At the same moment the La fired, tracers flew all over my fighter.

- Do you hear the sound of passing enemy projectiles?

- No, it is masked by the sound of your engine and the airflow, but I heard the tac-tac-tac of the enemy guns. As I manouvered, the sand in the bottom of the fuselage was thrown about by the negative G force. Since I did not have my goggles on, some of the sand got in my eyes. I did some external barrel rolls, it is an uncomfortable manouver because you are hanging by your belt and straps. In the same time I tried to see where the La was, but I did not see anything. I recovered, but immediately dived again and looked back: there he was, a little farther behind already. I tried to think what the heck to do now, I thought of the situations I had experienced, of the standing orders, but in vain. I decided to keep on diving. If the enemy is going to shoot, it is more difficult for him to hit me because he has to dive deeper to get a lead on me. The La did not shoot, I continued the dive and thought that I really must do something. I recollected my teacher of Finnish in the school, he was a Home Guard officer and he used to say: " Remember, lads, attack is the best defense!" I never found out why he kept repeating this phrase, but now for some reason I remembered it. I thought: how to get to attack ? I must do something! I pulled the stick and climbed, I saw the La follow, but then I ran out of speed. I turned and kept watching the Russian. Due to my turn he was climbing higher than I was, I saw that now I have a chance to attack him although I am below. I picked some speed, then I gave the La some lead and fired. It was a good shot because the La pulled a turn immediately. Again I took deflection and fired, and he changed his turn. This manouvering enabled me to get behind his tail fairly easily. Then I just waited for a chance to get a good deflection. When I had a chance to shoot, the salvo hit the La and the plywood fuselage broke behind the cockpit. The front part dived, the rear part fell slowly and the red star was flashing as the rudder kept going. The pilot bailed out immediately and opened his chute. I may have flown around the man, making a gesture to him, and he may have shaken his fist at me, but I cannot swear what happened really... I often used to hope that I could meet with this pilot and learn what he was thinking as he had had the winning hand and yet he lost.

- When I think that the La-5 was right behind me and at the last possible moment I looked back and still had time to evade...I had looked around, I had seen nothing, I was sure nobody would surprise me and yet... I had a protective angel, there is no denying. That could be my late mother, who looked after me, especially during the Russian offensive in Summer 1944. When I laid down in the night, I used to fall asleep fast. At the very moment I was going through the battles of the coming day, it was as if I were being programmed for the next day. As I woke up I knew what was going to happen and what I had to do that day. When I took off for a sortie everything was clear for me and I did not have to hesitate. This is hard to believe, but it is a fact.

- Thinking about it afterwards it is clear that I must have had some protection to survive. Even after the war I felt I was looked after.

I could as well tell about my easiest victory on the 28th of May 1944. I was basing at Malmi. Suursaari sent us a report: buzzing to the west. I was sent to identify. The coastline was covered by a thin veil of cloud, having climbed above it I saw a contrail. I began to climb to it, and when I reached the same altitude the contrail stopped. I kept a sharp lookout and saw a Pe-2. I caught it easily, and because the gunner shot at me, it was an enemy. Since it did not have any chance of escaping, I decided to play cat and mouse. I pulled a 360 degree turn, during which the bomber got about 2000 m away. As I approached again, the Pe went into a slightly left-turning glide. I took aim and estimated that the range was 1000 m. I further estimated that taking into account the range and the turn, the correct deflection would be 8 plane lengths. I decided to test my cannon and pushed the trigger with my thumb as briefly as ever possible. Some pieces flew off from the left wing of the Pe and it went into deeper dive. I thought the bomber is trying to escape, so I followed and more debris flew off from it. The dive became deeper and deeper, I could not follow because my speed was approaching the red line. I had to pull out, but I kept watching the Pe. It crashed near the village of Kuusalu, east of Tallinn.

At Malmi I told the armourers to check my guns. They found three spent 20mm cases.

- Were you in Germany for training ?

- Not in training, but I was there in April 1944 to ferry home new Messerschmitts. When we got to Berlin, on one of the air bases, no fighters were ready for us although they should have been. The Germans promised to deliver them, and they did arrive little by little in the course of days. We were idled in that German base for two weeks. Two fighters had been inspected and received, they were loaded with fuel and ammunition, but still in German markings. There was an air raid alert, American bombers were coming to raid Berlin. They used to approach Berlin either from the North above the Baltic and then turn to the South or from the South and then turn to the North, and return on the opposite direction.

- Puhakka suggested that we take the two battle ready fighters and attack the Fortresses if they should be coming to us. But nothing was seen. I wonder what would have happened if we had attacked Allied bombers? We had orders to save the fighters if the base should be bombed.

- There was a railway link to the base and there were hangars along the rails. Some big cloth.shrouded bundles were being unloaded from waggons to one of the buildings, which was closely guarded by a pair of armed sentries . When we by chance approached the hangar when taking our daily exercise, the sentries told us to keep out. But three of us, sergeants, had not been with us, and they too happened to get near the hangar and they saw that the door was open and the sentries nowhere! The men entered the building. They found wings and fuselages for an odd-looking miniature aircraft, which they measured with their arms and sketched on the cover of a cigarette box. They were out of the building before the sentries appeared. The sergeants discussed their discovery and wanted to check some measurements, but this time they were stopped by the sentries. The men told Capt. Puhakka what they had seen, and he put the story as an appendix to his own report on our trip when we finally got back to Finland. Later we were told that our men had seen parts of the V-1! The first ones were launced against Britain several weeks later. What would have happened if the lads had been caught in the storage?

- How many men belonged to the ground crew and were the mechanics specialised to engine or to fuselage maintenance?

- There were two mechanics: the responsible one and his assistant, who co-operated without being specialised. If one of them had worked late, for example replacing an engine, he stayed in bed while the other one began his daily service in the morning. There also was a team of armourers, servicing and repairing the guns of the flight, and a team of radio mechanics that looked after the radio transceivers.

- At the outset of the war you were a reservist, did you become a cadre officer later?

- No, I was a reserve officer to the last day. Even though I was at first Ensign and then Lieutenant, I was paid the daily allowance only. In addition we received clothing, food and tobacco, and an extra ration of food for flying personnell. At the end of the war snacks were made available for the pilots in readiness.

- Did you have decent flying gear?

- Not at the very beginning, but the situation was improved in the course of the time. The Messerschmitt pilot's suit was electrically heated from the system of the plane and it was warm. As to gloves, you had to have your own. The Air Force mitts could not be worn in the cockpit. The uniforms supplied could be anything, many pilots bought their own uniform with their own money. Underwear could often be changed only every two weeks, but that was not a big deal.

- Did the fighter pilots always have the same task, I mean did you always fly in the same leader/wingman combination?

- That is what we were trying to do, but sometimes duties had to be rotated. The pilots of one flight always flew together.

- Did you have a briefing before mission?

- That depended on mission. If it was a scramble to intercept, the flight commander had ordered in advance who are to take off first and if more planes are needed, who are to join them. If it was a patrol or escort mission, we were told what the target area was and what was our specific task. Experienced pilots knew what they had to do, they were just told what kind of a mission it was and they took off. The orders could be changed over the radio, but radio silence was a crucial thing especially in summer 1944. The enemy was listening on our frequencies and we on theirs, a lot of information could be had that way.

- Did you take any trophies from destroyed enemy planes?

- The pilots did not get any because the army men picked the wrecks clean. The only thing that I have is the clock of the MT-415 that Maj. Luukkanen removed from the wreck after he had been shot down. He gave it to me as a memory. Then I have scale models of Curtiss and Messerschmitts that I made of wood.

- Did the war reporters interview you often?

- A few times. Sulo Kolkka, who was a sports reporter, was interested in aviation and I thought he wrote good stories. He used to live in Nurmoila and he wrote the inofficial history of Squadron 32. It has not been published, however. In general very little has been written about the Curtiss squadron although only the Brewster squadron (LeLv24) had more victories than we did. Our squadron scored 190 victories and lost 8 planes in aerial battle. The exchange rate 23,7/1 is very good indeed.

- Have you had any contact with Soviet veteran pilots?

- None, although I hoped for some. I believe none of them are alive anymore. The Finnish Army veterans have some contacts to that direction, but the pilots don't.

- You have a computer, do you have access to the Internet?

- Yes, I do use the Internet, but actually the computer was purchased for writing down my diaries.

- Captain Karhila, I thank you for this interesting interview.

1999.03.08, © WW II Ace Stories.